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Thursday, August 9, 2018

Public Notary or Notary Public?

By Anna Von Reitz

Had a couple worthy questions today about notary services....

Notaries have been around since the Roman Empire.

A Public Notary acting in the land jurisdiction has more power than a State of State Supreme Court Judge.

A Notary Public is a different private office that the same people can occupy in the international jurisdiction of the sea.

And which office it is depends on your status, your purposes, the capacity in which you are acting and the nature of your paperwork, so you need to be able to figure it out and invoke the proper office of the Notary accordingly.

The people now serving as Notaries are all commissioned by "State of State" franchises and so, they normally function as Notary Publics in the international jurisdiction of the sea.

The jurisdiction invoked is indicated by the "Notary Block" the separate portion of the document reserved for them.

If it is Territorial United States jurisdiction being invoked, the Notary Block will show that the paperwork is taking place --- for example, in the "State of Vermont" and "County of Claybourne".

If it is Municipal United States jurisdiction, the Notary Block will show: "STATE OF VERMONT" and "COUNTY OF CLAYBOURNE".

But if you want to invoke the land jurisdiction owed to your country, the Notary Block will show: "Vermont State" and "Claybourne County". And, ideally, the Notary will be identified as a "Public Notary".

Sometimes we need the Public Notary to act as a Witness to our actions, such as sending a piece of mail, or hearing our testimony about something, which amounts to the same thing as being sworn in, in a court of law, or being deposed as a Witness outside the courtroom.

This is described by the Title of the Notary Block, which says "Public Notary Witness" or "Public Notary Jurat" [for testimony involving verbal utterances and affirmations or oaths] along with our declaration of the jurisdiction. This all serves to explicitly nail down the capacity in which the Notary is acting and what they are being asked to do.

Public Notaries count as two Witnesses.
Notary Publics count as one Witness.

Both capacities are officers of the court(s) they service.

So, yes, there is far more to the humble Notary than most people have ever begun to guess and the range of services that a Notary can perform is also much grander in scale than we typically take advantage of.

Of course, Notaries need to be compensated for their time and effort and as it is a largely volunteer occupation there is no salary and no set fee structure. Most Notaries ask a small fee -- $2 to $5 for witnessing a signature or autograph, and more for more involved services, such as mailing services and Notary Due Process Service.

This is just "the Basics" you need to be aware of in working with a Notary or Notarial Service. You choose the jurisdiction and the capacity you wish the Notary to act in, and you invoke it by your description in the Title of the Notary Block, the location described in the Notary Block, and the way the Notary is addressed --- either in their Public (land jurisdiction) capacity, or in their private (sea jurisdiction) capacity.

A study of Notarial Powers would take a good six months and is far beyond my capacity to address in a single article, but this gives you a good starting place and allows you to sort out the basic issues.

Land jurisdiction paperwork goes to a land recording office and is handled by a Recorder. Generally speaking, it requires a Public Notary and should be taking place in a land State and County: Ohio State, Lakeland County.

Sea jurisdiction paperwork goes to a registrar or clerk of court and is handled by a Registrar. It requires a Notary Public, and can be taking place in a fictional place such as: State of Ohio, County of Lakeland (Territorial) or STATE OF OHIO, COUNTY OF LAKELAND (Municipal).

You have to be sharp and watch closely and think about what you are doing to insure that you get the results and the services you want, and since you are the one preparing your paperwork, it is all in your hands and your choice, according to your purposes.

All the paperwork that I recommend (other than the Birth Certificate paperwork) will require a Public Notary service, will be a recording not a registration process, will go to and through a Recorder's Office, and the place will be a land jurisdiction state like: Wisconsin State, and a land jurisdiction County like: Jackson County.

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  1. Thank you for this information. I am a licensed Notary and I've been wondering what impact this would have on my efforts to reject the "U.S. Citizen" moniker. How does one go about making the change from Notary Public to Public Notary? Is it even possible for an American National to be a notary?

    1. Unknown, if you do receive an answer I will be interested to find out how to accomplish the same because my daughter is a Public Notary/Notary Public because the office is dual, depending upon what jurisdiction is invoked By What Is Written in the Notary Block. So she is as 2 witnesses one for the land jurisdiction and her commission through the sea jurisdiction, which is only 1 witness if the Notary block is in the sea jurisdiction, whether Territorial or MUNICIPAL.

      And after her paperwork is recorded is she only for the land jurisdiction Public Notary or does she keep the capacity as a Notary Public in the jurisdiction of the sea.

      Thank you for the good questions, I hope you receive a reply.

    2. ra string, no answer yet, but the more I look at it, the more I believe the notary license will have to be surrendered. While I don't receive a gov't paycheck, a notary is essentially an appointed Deputy Secretary of State. So whichever jurisdiction you choose to operate within (and it would be extremely difficult to just pick one), you probably don't need this title mucking things up. I plan on ridding myself of it as soon as my current business situation allows it.

    3. Yes, I am the "Unknown" that posted the question. Not sure why it came up "Unknown".

  2. Well that's easier said than done....where to find such a rascal???? Not like you can google one!

    1. doonstr--Take a deep breath and exhale slowly.

      So, the rascal is You and much easier to find than googling. When you write out your "Notary Block" you invoke "the jurisdiction" and "the notary" accordingly.

      A notary as a "Public Notary" serves the "Public land jurisdiction" and the “Notary Block” would be written as a land State and County: Ohio State, Lakeland County. This is what you want to write in your “Notary Block”.

      Or the very same notary as a "Notary Public" serves the "private sea jurisdiction" and the “Notary Block” for Territorial would use the terms "State of/County of" and MUNICIPAL would use "STATE OF/COUNTY OF". You do not want to use either of these.

      See Basic Package of Editable forms #928, the following forms have all the correct invoking of the Public Notary and land jurisdiction. Take the time to comprehend the differences in each of the “Notary Blocks” on all of these forms, it is well worth your study as to how you want to write yours.

      3. Example of Acknowledgment, Acceptance and Deed of Re-Conveyance Deed of Reconveyance.docx

      4. Example of Certificate of Assumed Name Certificate of Assumed Name.docx

      5.Example of Act of Expatriation for JOHN MARK DOE Act of Expatriation JOHN MARK DOE.doc

      6. Example of Act of Expatriation for JOHN M. DOE ACT OF EXPATRIATION JOHN M. DOE.docx

      7. Example of Act of Expatriation for JOHN DOE ACT OF EXPATRIATION JOHN DOE.docx

      8. Example Baby Land Deed Deed of Land Recording.docx

      We really can make it through all of this if we just relax and read things over 3+ times so that we can answer our own questions. Hurdles at what ever stage are necessary for everyone's edification. Help us all so that we can help ourselves and each others.

  3. I have the same question. about Public notary Vs notary public. No one knows what this means even Notary public's have NO idea. Even the Secretary of State has no idea , Even the Attorney generals office has no idea. HoW do i do ANY of the recording paperwork properly with out a PUBLIC notary of the LAND . HELP , i have a dated need to have this resolved. Are there ANY public notary's anywhere that I can use and PAY to do my land recordings . I am in NEW HAMPSHIRE ! the state of.

  4. I just listened to David Straight's seminar in Arkansas and he said Notary Public is the one we want to use in order to stay on the land. This #%@& drives me crazy! Which is it that a (wo)man on the land should be using?

    1. From Anna:

      If you are coming from the sea you use a Notary Public. If you are coming from the land you use a Public Notary. Just make it easy and call them a Notary and be done with it. The jurisdiction is established by the location.

      COUNTY OF MONTROSE is Municipal, air jurisdiction.

      State of Colorado
      County of Montrose is international sea jurisdiction.

      State of Colorado
      Montrose County is international land jurisdiction

      Montrose County
      Is national soil jurisdiction.

      A notary can act in all these different venues. The question is—- where are you and in what capacity and in which jurisdiction are you operating?

      Our employees and corporate officers are restricted and limited to either Territorial or Municipal Jurisdiction. We, however, can operate in the two other additional locations

  5. I have had two Notaries refuse to notarize the change your status documents unless they attach the State of California form and stamp "Form attached" on the document. One Notary called the California Notary Hotline and they said the documents could not be notarized using the language on the notary section. After a couple of hours searching the net all sources said notary Public and Public Notary were the same.

  6. From Anna:

    You use a cover sheet — either one that you provide or one that they provide. That is immaterial. There are copies of cover sheets available in our process documents to serve as examples and if California requires a standardized cover sheet they are not altering the content of what is filed.


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